(no subject)

[geminigirl]

Tonight on ABC's 20/20...


Do you cringe when you see a woman breast-feeding in public? Or do you pass judgment when you see a woman buy milk formula for her newborn? Americans have mixed visceral reactions to breast-feeding, and a recent breast-feeding ad campaign has brought those reactions to a roiling boil.

The U.S. government spent $2 million on an ad campaign to promote breast-feeding. One of the ads shows a pregnant woman logrolling; another shows her riding a mechanical bull. Both ads ask: "You wouldn't take this kind of risk with your baby, so then why would you take the risk by not breast-feeding?"

Comments

[deza.livejournal.com]

I believe women should be allowed to breast-feed in public. However, I also believe that if they are in the middle of the Children's Area of the public library, they have a social responsibility to cover up when doing so.

[koyote.livejournal.com]

""""
Jen Spitzer, a mother who used formula, not breast milk, said the ad made her angry because it was too black and white. "I think it would make someone who can't breast-feed or somebody who chose not to breast-feed feel guilty because it's saying that you are putting your child at risk if you choose to formula feed," said Spitzer.
""""

Well, you know. if it's a *choice*- not a medical problem, just a choice- then.... yeah. exactly. You are putting your child at risk if you put them in a car withoout a car seat, too. Maybe sometimes there is a reason for guilt.

I admire a lot of the multivalued multicultural total freedom from condemnation stuff, but we really are talking about something that's a teensy bit more important than the style of my kilt.

Logrolling?

[maxdwolf.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that'll bring about a miscarriage. *rolls eyes*

While I don't generally agree w. the negative approach, I don't mind the idea of putting some social pressure on women to breast feed. I think ads praising those who breast feed would be a better approach.

[bicrim.livejournal.com]

That's just stupid. Lactating breasts are NOT sexual, and so there is no reason that children need to be "protected" from seeing them.

[deza.livejournal.com]

That's not about "protecting" kids. It's about respecting the rights of other parents to bring up their children in the manner they see fit. I would be furious if someone random stranger decided to educate my kids about abortion; wouldn't you? Why should other topics be any different?

Just for the record, my kids are used to seeing naked bodies. I recognize that other parents don't feel the same way, so we all stay clothed when other kids are over visiting. Again, it's a matter of respect.

[aliki.livejournal.com]

That's an equally illogical argument to make.

Peeing or taking a shit isn't sexual either, but because it involves sexual genitalia like breasts, we do it in private. It has nothing to do with protecting children.

I think equally illogical is the argument about why, on LJ icons, male nipples are okay but females aren't. THe same reason why when you go to a beach, males only wear swim trunks but women have to cover their breasts!!

[mskathy.livejournal.com]

I find this discussion fascinating. I can't think of a good reply to anyone's comments, but it stirs up a lot of emotion for me. I tried so hard, I had a lac consultant, I took herbs, I took drugs, I didn't take drugs I might otherwise have, I pumped and I did everything "right" and I still couldn't produce enough supply to have Sarah be a solely breastfed baby. Even though I did everything I could, I also felt stares of sheer judgement when I would give her a bottle and we were out at a restaurant or in the park. Funny how we "feel" both sides sometimes.. I never felt judged while breastfeeding in public (although I did use a thin blanket to cover us up), but I absolutely got looks while giving her a bottle. I don't think it's okay to judge anyone else if you don't know the whole story and certainly people walking by did not know my whole story. Just some incoherent rambling from someone that's already too emotional today, I suppose...

[geminigirl]

I've heard that with PCOS, breast feeding has additional challenges, including development of milk ducts and stuff. Someone mentioned to me a while back that there's some evidence that staying on metformin during the pregnancy can help with this...I'm still trying to investigate...because I've seen information that the safety of metformin during pregnancy isn't known, but, I'm wondering if it's not worth the risk. So confusing!

[mactavish.livejournal.com]

THe same reason why when you go to a beach, males only wear swim trunks but women have to cover their breasts!!

I agree, they're both illogical! In NYC and Quebec, women's nipples are acceptable where men's are, which makes more sense.

[palliddreamer.livejournal.com]

I've seen a lot of normal babies delivered by women who have taken metformin. As far as I know, it's considered safe, though I could look into it further if you want.

It really boggles my mind why Americans are so upset about breasts and beast feeding. I spend a lot of time trying to promote it when possible, but usually people are just black and white unbending about it either way. "I'd NEVER breast feed!" Or "I'm a good mother, of course I'm breast feeding!" People should most certainly try, but it doesn't always work for everyone.

[geminigirl]

I would really appreciate it if you would look into it more...I'm curious about it during pregnancy and breastfeeding.

If you've got some time, I also have another question that you might be able to help out with...it's probably not a huge time investment for you, but I'd like to have some information before I see my midwife again on 8/10. If you have a few minutes between now and then to help me out with something (related to the metformin/pcos stuff) I'd be very grateful.

[geminigirl]

Oh, and re-read your second paragraph very carefully for typos. You've got one there that made me giggle, a whole lot. :)

[entirelysonja.livejournal.com]

One of the things about being a parent is that people are always going to judge us about our parenting choices, no matter what they are.

You know perfectly well that breastmilk is superior to formula. If you didn't know that, you wouldn't have tried so hard to breastfeed your child. You also know that formula is a good substitute for breastmilk when there's a good medical reason why you can't breastfeed, or can't breastfeed exclusively.

Those ads are not targeted at people like you. They're targeted at the uninformed masses who, due to the way formula has been pushed in our society for the last 50 years, choose not to breastfeed because they really think breastfeeding doesn't have any substantial benefits over formula feeding. You'd be amazed how many people choose not to breastfeed for reasons like:

1) I felt more comfortable knowing how much my kid was getting with each feeding.
2) I didn't want to be tied down.
3) I/my husband/my mother think(s) breastfeeding is gross.
4) I "wanted my body back".
5) I was formula fed, and I turned out OK.

Incidentally, I see far more people around here giving their kids bottles in public than nursing. I try to avoid assuming that they are exclusively formula-feeding, even if I know what's in that particular bottle is formula. They may simply be uncomfortable nursing in public. Anyway, based on what I see out there, bottlefeeding is still the norm in our society.

As for the ads themselves, I'm not convinced they're the best approach. On the other hand, maybe shaking people up a little would be helpful -- "breast is best" only seems to be going so far.

[bicrim.livejournal.com]

I don't want to be rude and start shit on a private journal, but the whole comparing nursing to pissing and shitting is the most lame, ignorant, and just plain wrong stance that formula apologists take. Shit is waste. All mammels hide their waste and don't eat near it. Breastmilk is food. All mammels nurse their young whereever and whenever the babies need to eat. Food is not shit. There is no comparison.

[bicrim.livejournal.com]

It's safe for nursing.The research on PCOS seems to show that about 40% of women with it have issues with supply, but with about half of them it's oversupply, not undersupply. Even of those with a low supply, only about 15% did not make enough for exclusive breastfeeding.

Have you joined any of the LJ breastfeeding communities yet? Both "Breastfeeding" and "Boobie_Bootcamp" are open to women who are TTC and/or pregnant. I learned so much in them, and got a lot of great support when it was hard at the beginning.

[bicrim.livejournal.com]

It really sucks to be one of the 5% of nursing couples who have a real problem with supply. I have hypoplastic breasts and even with domperidone, herbs, and pumping, only managed a 75% supply. We used donor milk and a SNS to make up the rest, so my son never had any formula. It was really hard, and I understand the huge disapointment it is to know that you are not healthy and normal about something so important. It sounds like you did your best, and hopefully it will go better with the next one, if you are planning another!

[mskathy.livejournal.com]

Anyway, based on what I see out there, bottlefeeding is still the norm in our society.

I wonder if its regional or what? I know in my area, I joined a few mom groups - every group had an unspoken (whispered) strong bias against bottle feeders. If you didn't at least TRY to breastfeed, they looked at you as a lower mother. Now, we could debate whether or not that's actually the case, but it just sort of stung when new people joined and saw ME bottle feeding and then assumed I never tried, you know? And good grief, I'm an open book but I don't go around telling perfect strangers about my breastfeeding sagas (well, except on LJ hehe).

Thanks for the post. Your points were well taken.

[mskathy.livejournal.com]

I have heard anecdotally that Met will help greatly with supply.

I've also heard that if you start herbs and such right after birth, it helps.

Unfortunately I had an incompetent pediatrician, no support and was basically a stupid new mom and I didn't even know Sarah had a problem feeding until she was 6 weeks old and still near her birthweight. I think if you put support into place before it even is an issue you are so much better off!

[mskathy.livejournal.com]

hopefully it will go better with the next one, if you are planning another!

I tend to think it always gets better with the next, right, because there is no more "what happens now" anxiety... next time [if there is one] I will be so much more prepared and comfortable! kwim?

[rawness.livejournal.com]

*comes out of lurkdom* (yes I lurk here and i am a creepy stalker)

There are scads of women over on breastfeeding who know heaps and heaps about this - seems most of them use metformin during prengnacy and lactation from what I know.

FWIW, if you choose not to use metformin, there's always using supply boosting medication during lactation AND lactaid/SNS.

You know I'll totally hook you up when you have teh babies

[katishna.livejournal.com]

I was a mother who tried breastfeeding and ended up having to quit due to serious mental illness issues. My choice was my life, sanity, and the chance to be around to raise my child, vs. breastfeeding my son but waiting for the day that I couldn't talk myself out of killing myself. I chose the long-term best solution for me and my son both. With that behind me, this topic irks me. I would have loved to be able to continue breastfeeding my son for as long as he was willing. But people I thought were my friends were suddenly silent (and sometimes not so silent) accusers when they found out I was no longer breastfeeding. Not many of them cared that I was on medication to keep me sane and functional, i actually heard "what about one of the antidepressants that is okay for breastfeeding moms?" many times. After 3 years of trying most every psychiatric medication on the market, and some off-label ones, I chose to stick with what was definitely working.

I guess in the end, I have this to say. Breastfeeding IS better for your child. I won't dispute that. But parenting is so difficult, even without the added challenges of postpartum depression, supply issues, etc., that to make people feel inferior and guilty for making choices that others don't agree with is just defeating. It's individualist and elitist, and it doesn't help women help each other. It may take a village to raise a baby, but when the village is at war with itself, the child suffers.

Incidentally, my supply was fine. In fact, I probably could have fed mine and all my friends' babies on my supply. But it would have been poisoned. Isn't that ironic?

[cerulean-me.livejournal.com]

PCOS can absolutely hurt one's milk supply.

In 2002 Dr. Hale (of Medications and Mother's Milk) did a study of metformin and breastfeeding, and has deemed it safe (L1). So whether or not you want to use it in pregnancy, you can take it after- and it's the only thing that kept me making enough milk for my son.

http://neonatal.ttuhsc.edu/lact/

[cerulean-me.livejournal.com]

From what I've read (and experienced!) all the reglan, domperidone, fenugreek, oatmeal, brewers yeast, extra pumping, nursing on demand, hanging out topless with the bebe non-stop, and many women with PCOS still can't seem to make enough milk- metformin really seems to bridge that gap.

I believe that Medications and Mother's Milk says that it's L1...

[geminigirl]

I had no idea you lurked here, but you don't have to lurk. It's a pretty welcoming place, and almost entirely public.

Post-miscarriage, I've had a hard time reading the pregnancy/breastfeeding communities, but I'll have to get over that some time soon...we're hoping to try again after we've moved and gotten settled (and assuming that my midwife gives the "all clear.)

And thanks for the hookup. I'll be looking for you.

[rawness.livejournal.com]

Oh I completely understand that. Whenever you're ready, there will be heaps of help waiting for you. We really aren't mean people - we want to help those who want help, we don't want to push and flame those who don't. That's just a waste of resources and time. Even though I know there are the ones out there who ruin the rep for everyone.

But more on topic - I think, as was said, Hale listed met as an L1 so even if you don't take it during pregnancy, it has been researched and found safe during nursing which will be a great help :D

oh and I added you. ive always been SO nervous about commenting but i saw this and couldnt help it