Complaint and Question

[geminigirl]

(not directed at anyone here btw)

Why is it that when you post a query about something to LJ you get all sorts of information not relevant to your question?

Other question, is related to birthing classes/birth preparation so it's back behind but I'd appreciate feedback from those of you who have given birth, who have attended births, who have been birth partners/labor support, and those of you with significant knowledge about the subject.

We're at a point where we're trying to discuss and decide on labor stuff-I want to get settled with whatever labor classes we're going to take soon, since I'm 17 weeks now. We'll take the hospital class, which is more about birthing at that hospital, and is separate from their Lamaze offering. We're going to do that because I'm not going to try and write a birth plan/negotiate a lower intervention birth until I've gotten some idea of what the hospital does and doesn't do, likes and doesn't like, and so on.

But, we're investigating other stuff. My sister in law pushes Bradley pretty hard, and that's fine...it's worked well for her. And I know there are local Bradley teachers. We've also got local "Birthing from Within" teachers and local Hypnobabies teachers. I'm wondering what feedback other people have about these methods-what's worked or hasn't worked for you. Did you hate something about this method or that method? What has worked well in births you attended? And all that stuff. Feedback, please?

Comments

[aelf.livejournal.com]

We did the hospital classes, and lamaze classes. Really, aside from the infant & child CPR, they were a waste of time. I already had the information from my own research, and the classes itself didn't provide anything additional (aside from making me listen to annoying music, or wanting me & Mike to practice something I'd never in a million years want -- like foot massage).

[kellfire.livejournal.com]

I did my hospital's version of Lamaze and had both kids drug free. The class definitely helped. And would have even if I had time for the epidural.

[lovingboth]

What's Bradley / Hypnobabies??

The one I'm most familiar with :) was always going to be a home birth. That translates as minimal pain relief ('gas and air' only). Paying for a private midwife was too expensive, so we did their group's classes instead. About six or eight of them from memory. They didn't push any 'approach', but had quite a bit on the biological processes of birth. How you coped with it was up to you :) So most attendees were also after home births, but hospital was fine. 'Drug me to the eyeballs'? Fine. Water birth? Fine. etc.

The one bit that still remains engraved in my mind years later was an exercise where everyone was asked to do a pie chart of their day. You know, awake at 8am, say, breakfast, an hour's LJing (yeah, right), etc to bed at 11pm.

Then they showed us what it'd be like following the birth for a while: lots of short periods of sleep, followed by baby stuff. Repeat throughout the 24 hours.

Everyone laughed, nervously.

It was spot on.

The actual birth was handled fine by the community (i.e. National Health Service) midwives. They advised rather than pushed. Lisa did the pushing :) There's more on my LJ - it'll be almost exactly six years ago.

That lasted hours. The 'after' was much longer and it's that which will be a complete change to your life and which you need to prepare for - get those 'come over, do the cleaning, do the cooking, leave a freezer full of stuff, then leave after ten seconds of "ooh baby"' visits from friends and family booked now :)

In the UK, we have the 'Contented Little Baby Book' written by someone who had to look after lots of other people's babies at once. I'm sure it was a tough job, but she seems to think that her method - make the little bastards do what you want, when you want - is applicable to everyone else. If you can get it, read it and do the opposite. More detail if required...

[geminigirl]

Bradley and Hypnobabies are both childbirth methods for natural pain relief during labor.

We actually just got a new spare freezer which I'm hoping I'll have the time and energy later on to stock with things that we like and that freeze well, in both large and individual portions. My parents have said they'll come whenever we want them to post-birth, but that we should take a few days or more after the baby is born to let ourselves settle down a bit. I've been firm in wanting my parents to come before his, so his parents will come after mine-I'll have to tell them when though.

[wait.livejournal.com]

We did the hospital class, which featured some Bradley techniques. We took it so we could become familiar with the hospital's practices and to know their interventions. For that alone, it was invaluable. I knew what to expect which helped my anxieties tremendously. Plus it allowed J to hear about all the things I *didn't* want and how to say no to them. (Surprisingly, the nurse teaching the class was the one who really emphasized taking charge of your birth experience.)

I know people who have taken hypnobirthing and loved it. I think it can be limiting and preferred to have a bag of tricks, rather than just one plan.

[rockstarbob.livejournal.com]

I know a lot of folks who really dug hypnobirthing as well! There a lot of different hypnobirthing franchises (for lack of a better word), which was a little overwhelming for me, but I do think it's a cool concept.

[tisiphone.livejournal.com]

I did Bradley, and it seemed to work pretty well, even though the hospital nurse kept trying to get me to do Lamaze (they're different breathing patterns and it can be difficult when you're screaming in pain.) However, I think both of them work - the really important thing is that you're comfortable doing it and it works for you. In fact, I might go so far as to try one of each class if you're still undecided and see which one works better for you.

Long-winded comment on Bradly/BFW!

[rockstarbob.livejournal.com]

We're taking Bradley classes, which focus on relaxation and the role of the husband. They really push the whole "husband-coached childbirth" thing, which was HUGE back in the day... but now? I find myself uncomfortable with the concept/wording. That said, it's a fantastic bit of education for a partner/husband who is not super enlightened about pregnancy/labor/birth.

The relaxation part is supposed to help b/c (as I'm sure you know), a relaxed mama has an easier/quicker labor and birth with fewer problems. The relaxation techniques focus on how to relax through the pain. For example, a few times we've done an exercise where the moms do normal abdominal breathing and focus on staying relaxed while the birth partner pinches our arms at contraction-level intervals. (I know Birthing From Within does something similar, but with ice cubes.)

There's a lot of emphasis on diet and exercise as the primary ways to prevent problems. (You know how I felt about the diet bit, but maybe you wouldn't have the same objections?)

There are also a lot of (extremely outdated) natural birth videos and anatomy lessons. I don't think you'd benefit much from all the anatomy lessons, being a vagina lady and all, but I have learned a lot of other stuff about the biological end of what happens during pregnancy, labor and birth. The videos are more comical to me b/c of how outdated they are; even with natural births, they are usually in very clinical settings and don't really give you an idea of what contemporary births are like, which is somewhat irritating.

The main thing my doula tells me is that Bradley focuses more on the physical side of things while Birthing From Within prepares you psychologically and emotionally. Both are valuable. What I decided to do was take Bradley and read Birthing From Within. My doula is also going to do some exercises with me from the book at my request.

Bradley is a 12-week course, so that's pretty great in a lot of ways. You get a lot of time to digest the info (with plenty of repetition of the important stuff to aid with retention) and it's good to spread things out over a longer period of time. One thing I really like about it is how there is an emphasis on the power of the consumer (you and your partner = consumers) and how we have options when it comes to labor and birth. Bradley does stress a natural birth as the best way to go, but everything else is just about empowering us to know what options are out there and make informed and empowered decisions that work for us.

All the instructors are rigorously trained in The Bradley Way, which is good for consistency's and accountability's sake. The down side is that the Bradley Enterprise (books and other merchandise) is pushed pretty hard. I feel like our instructor knows the stuff Bradley wants her to know, but that they didn't really help her when it comes to how to actually teach the info. She's a bad teacher, but that's pretty hit or miss... maybe in your area the instructors are better? We just walk through the workbook every week, and even though there are only 5 or 6 couples in the class, we don't interact that much. I also find myself secretly knowing more about some related women's health/anatomy issues that the instructor brings up, but I try to bite my tongue so as not to be That Jerk.

Soooo, to make a long story short, there is a lot I'd like to change about these classes, but I have still learned a lot and am glad I'm going. I think that mostly my problem is that the classes are directed more toward a different set of people... folks who maybe don't come into the classes as well informed--especially "husband coaches." If I had it to do all over again, I'd still take Bradley classes b/c I think it's the best option in our area.

It really depends on what you're looking for, though. What do you want out of a birth class?

A little bit on Lamaze and pretending I spelled "Bradley" right in my other comment. :P

[rockstarbob.livejournal.com]

Bradley is understandably critical of the Lamaze approach, which they argue doesn't teach "normal" abdominal breathing and instead can cause women to hyperventilate during labor. My midwives agreed with that assessment, for what it's worth.

I'm happy to talk with you about this on IM any time too, FYI. :)

Re: A little bit on Lamaze and pretending I spelled "Bradley" right in my other comment. :P

[geminigirl]

I figured I'd catch you on IM about it at some point, but thank you for reinforcing the offer.

I've heard the same thing about hyperventilating and Lamaze, and that's one of the concerns I have with it-the hospital offers Lamaze.

Your comments about Bradley seem to be well founded in the literature, though I've heard from some people that it depends greatly on the instructor. I'm feeling rather uncertain about it.

Thing is, while labor is probably more, and different pain than I've experienced in the past, I'm pretty comfortable with the idea of pain and with my own coping. What I want most out of a birth class for me is to feel empowered to remain in as much control as reasonable, and to feel good about being able to make decisions. I'm honestly more concerned with zedrikcayne-I think he needs to feel empowered, but also he needs to feel well informed enough to stay in control, and secure without feeling like he's failing to support me or "make things okay" if I'm in pain or having difficulty.

Re: A little bit on Lamaze and pretending I spelled "Bradley" right in my other comment. :P

[rockstarbob.livejournal.com]

Then honestly, I think Bradley would be a great fit for you guys. Especially for zedrikcayne. BFW really focuses on preparing the mother for this big psychological event, and there's a lot of birth art, etc., that goes along with it. If you feel pretty prepared and confident in that area, then I think you might do better with Bradley.

Even though the quality and approach of the instructors vary, their overall philosophy is exactly what you said you're looking for: learning how to remain in as much control as is reasonable and feeling informed and good about making decisions. (BFW actually stresses that we have to let go of control b/c birth is an unpredictable event, even though it does present options.)

Re: A little bit on Lamaze and pretending I spelled "Bradley" right in my other comment. :P

[geminigirl]

So confused. I feel so uninformed here.

I will point him at this post though, and the websites for the various suggested classes and see what he has to say. I'm strongly inclined to let him have a heavier share in the final say on birth classes...even if it is something like 51%.

Re: A little bit on Lamaze and pretending I spelled "Bradley" right in my other comment. :P

[rockstarbob.livejournal.com]

What are you feeling confused and uninformed about? Maybe I can help, even though I'm relatively new to all this too.

[goingdriftless.livejournal.com]

Semi-related... :) Since I've never been pregnant, I can't really give a lot of info on that front.

BUT... I just came from my awesome yoga class. And I do have to say that if you live anywhere near or in Arlington, I can highly recommend my yoga instructor. I've never been to her prenatal classes (obviously)... but I can only imagine that they're great because her regular class is great. If you ever want the info, just ask.

This is the first time I've felt relaxed all week. *happy sigh*
I so need a yoga icon...

[geminigirl]

I wish I still lived near Arlington. Sadly, we moved to Florida a bit more than two years ago. There's a chance we might end up back in NoVa in the future though.

I'm checking out two different pre-natal classes in a few weeks.

[goingdriftless.livejournal.com]

Ohhhh! I thought you were around here. It's a good class, but it'd be a hec of a commute. I hope you find a good one!

[geminigirl]

Sadly, not anymore. I was a DC-Local on and off for about ten years, which is why if you read a lot of NoVa/DC-local journals, I'm on the f'list.

I'd love to be back there.

[wolfden.livejournal.com]

We did Bradley Classes. We quite liked them and we hired our Bradley instructor to act as a Doula for us. The problem I had was that when I was pre-ecclamptic and had to be induced the coping mechanisms didn't work for me (I had to be on the monitors and I had to stay in bed, I had very few options). I think it's that whole once the interventions start it's hard to end them. I can't regret what happened having had a happy healthy baby. It just wasn't what I wanted it to be.

I hope it all goes well for you.

*hugs*

[geminigirl]

A very good point about the monitors. And that's one thing I'm worried about getting out of any class. I'm hoping that whoever we hire as a doula will be able to help with that.

[wolfden.livejournal.com]

Because I had the double whammy of pitocin and magnesium sulfate was the real issue. I couldn't have stood up if I wanted to. Mag Sulfate

They can do intermittent external monitoring and allow a lot more freedom than what I was able to have. Also, I ended up with a doctor that I didn't especially care for from the practice. Because I had complications I lost my midwife and had to deal with the entire practice (they wouldn't let her attend with the doctor even tho we requested it and so did the doula). That was a problem with that doctor not the practice. A lot of it just depends what happens. At that point I was not in a place to argue. My blood pressure was all wonky and I was showing compromised liver and kidney function. I hope that you will skip out on all those things. :)

I don't want to give you tmi or freak you out so if you have questions let me know and I'll answer for you.

I have a friend that had an excellent Bradley Birth and wanted to become a Bradley Educator but was never able to afford to go to the testing. I know she was really really pleased. I liked Bradley. I'd have tried it again if I ever did the pregnancy thing again (but I was told not to and now it's not possible which is okay cuz I just get to spoil and love on other people's babies.)

[geminigirl]

I was risked out of midwife care at the very beginning, which was not surprising. However, I like my OB quite a bit. While it does put me very much into a medical model of dealing with things, he also seems to try to respect what I do and don't want and what I do and don't feel comfortable with.

You're not freaking me out-I'm not expecting this to be an un-freaky, unscary experience. And I'm talking about childbirth-TMI is kind of a given.


Bradley seems to be getting the most approval from all the sources I've asked both on and off LJ. We'll have to spend some time checking it out, and seeing what's offered and when around here. I probably ought to consult with the OB as well.

[wolfden.livejournal.com]

I love my OB. In fact there are 3 in the practice that I love.

Dr. Kamm telling me that I could continue to vomit 4 times a day and be fine (I was at like month 6 and had already been hospitalized because of it) didn't fly so well. The other doctors in that practice are okay but I'd don't love them. The one that delivered Tatiana isn't part of the practice anymore. Neither is my midwife - that started using the midwives only for well woman care and not deliveries and she didn't like (no that I blame her) and so she left. She was terrific too. She recommended out Bradley Instructor and was just so nice and thoughtful.

You know my labor experience was pretty hideous. Mostly from the combo of the pitocin and mag sulfate. But Tatiana's actual birth was fairly easy and I had one stitch for a very minor tear. So that part was good. I had great support from the lactation consultants at the Hospital (which isn't common I guess). So that stuff was all good.

We did a hospital tour and procedures class that was par of our Bradley Classes. We also did a breastfeeding class and a caring for your infant (how to change a diaper, give a bath, etc) at the hospital. The breast feeding class was great the lactation people there are stellar. We took the infant care class because Chris had held 1 baby prior to my getting pregnant and had no clue how to do anything.

The best was the day after Tatiana was born Chris was attempting to change her and she started to poop more while her diaper was off. He was like "HELP!" Because I was still drugged up (mag sulfate is not my friend), I had to page the nurse and she did a very good job of not laughing at his diaper dilemmas.

[rivka.livejournal.com]

I am not a big fan of classes that stress the one perfect way that you should cope with childbirth. Lamaze, for example. The last thing that would have worked for me during labor was someone lecturing me on how to breathe. I'd say that as long as you don't take the Bradley diet seriously, those classes should be fine.

I hugely recommend Penny Simkin's books: Pregnancy, Childbirth, and the Newborn for you, and The Birth Partner for Cayne. They are ZOMG WONDERFUL.

In case they are useful, my childbirth class posts are here (http://www.livejournal.com/tools/memories.bml?user=rivka&keyword=Maybe+baby&filter=all).

[geminigirl]

Oh goodness, thank you. It's all sorts of stuff that I don't think I read when you were pregnant with Alex.

Even if they're not helpful in choosing birth classes, they're helpful in all sorts of other ways.

[rockstarbob.livejournal.com]

I second The Birth Partner for your guy! Steven loved it, and I gave it a read too.

[bicrim.livejournal.com]

I took my mom's Lamaze class, and a hypnobirthing class. Honestly? The hypnobirthing, which I was all ready to do and really on board with, failed me utterly when I went into labor. My mom ended up coaching me in lamaze, and it worked well. If I had it to do over, I would have taken a Bradley class instead. They are best for women who are having OB assisted hospital births and with unsure husbands.

[therealocelot.livejournal.com]

I didn't do a birth class with either kid. With Leif, we moved right at the time I would have been taking the class, and he was born before I could get into the one-day class offered by the hospital. I don't feel I missed out from a labor coping skills standpoint, but I likely would have chosen a different hospital!

By the time Astrid came along, I'd been exposed to enough birth-related stuff that I really didn't feel the need, especially since I knew I'd managed just fine before.

From what I've gathered from other people, many hospital classes are more about indoctrination in the hospital's preferred way of doing things than actual coping skills. Of course, like anything else, this varies from hospital to hospital. Many hospitals give L&D tours, which might address your questions without the time, expense, and potential negative impact of a class.

I'd try a Birthing from Within class if I had the money. The book was pretty invaluable to me (though I never did any of the art), and the section in it for partners is pretty good.

I have some of the same misgivings about Bradley that rockstarbob mentions. I think it has some good techniques, but don't necessarily agree with the husband-as-coach approach.

Hypnobabies sounds interesting. Again, I'd probably try it given a reason and adequate money. We took a self-hypnosis class while pregnant with Leif (not specifically pregnancy-related, though we bought a pregnancy-specific tape that I listened to on a semi-regular basis), and some of the techniques we learned were helpful during labor, though I don't think they ever got so far as inducing a hypnotic state.

With any of them, you can get good info from the class, but it isn't going to be optimally helpful unless you practice it to the point where it becomes reflex. In particular, practice in situations where you really are trying to cope with stress of some sort (stubbed toe, idiot people...).

I really don't know what people have done in the births I've attended, since I don't meet them until they're in labor, and often either non-English-speaking or past the point of wanting to talk much. They're also generally calling me for the people who aren't coping well, so it isn't exactly the best sample.

I wrote quite a bit more, but it's above and beyond the scope of the question, so I'll shut up. Basically just general info on what I've noticed about birth and pain and partners and so on, but I worry about being that annoying person who talks your head off, so I'll leave it at that unless you want more :)

[katishna.livejournal.com]

My advice is to take whatever classes you can afford, get into all the hospital tours, and generally inform the hell out of yourself. Then when you get into the delivery room, you have an arsenal to work from, and not just one plan that can and probably will go haywire to some extent. We took a lamaze class from a hippie who was into homebirth, and it was a great experience. She was honest and forthcoming about what would probably happen, what you could hope for and expect, and how to deal with snafus.

We ended up using some of the breathing from lamaze, until i finally had to give in and get an epidural. The class helped me realize that i wasn't giving up, i had just reached my limit. It also helped me learn how to still have a baby through the traditional exit while doped up almost to numbness.

[katishna.livejournal.com]

Hmm, just read my post, it's not too clear. the lamaze class was about hospital births, and the realistic expectation that 92% of women here have epidurals, so how to work with that knowledge and how to have a baby through the pain or through the drugs. Sorry if I"m muddled, lack of sleep :)