Habemus Papem

[geminigirl]

I happened to have the TV on this morning, while I caught up on LJ and stuff. NBC broke into the programming to show the smoke at the Sistene Chapel. There was much confusion-the smoke appeared white, as it had in previous votes, with Vatican Radio declaring it black then indeterminate, then finally white. AP and Reuters were both cautious with their reports, while Mexican, Austrian and German reporters were declaring it white. I provided a play by play for Cayne, until the smoke was declared white, and the bells rang at about five minutes past noon. I've watched excited nuns move quickly through Saint Peter's Square. I've watched the children dance around, cheering in Latin. People are streaming into the Square, breaking down police barricades. They're on rooftops, and everywhere.

And one of NBC's comentators chose to use the phrase "Who is it? Who's the Daddy?"

I've followd this rather closely, for a non-Catholic. My own fascination with it intrigues me. It's anthropology, it's a love of ritual, of pomp. The curtains that adorn the Papal Loggia are shifting, and they appear to be human, not wind motions. I should have been an antropologist.

Qui sibi nominem imposit?

ETA: Cardinal Ratzinger, from Germany...who chose as his name Pope Benedict XVI. Ultraconservative, and if I remember correctly, not well liked by many Americans.

ETA2: I'm amazed at the speed at which the negative commentary has appeared on my Flist...I'm curious as to the comments the more observant, involved Catholics will make later on. John Paul II did so much work to heal the rifts between Jews and Catholics, and I liked that, even though I disagreed with a lot of other stuff. And Ratzinger was a member of the Hitler Youth...which, despite the fact that there are probably many people who did it because it was culturally the expected thing to do, it still makes me feel icky. And the fear that Ratzinger/Benedict XVI will demolish many of the gains that women have made is strong. He deserves to be judged in his own right...he chose the name Benedict because it was important to him, and Benedict XV was very focused on humanitarian causes.

Comments

[katishna.livejournal.com]

wow, that was fast.

and that 'news correspondent' should be smacked upside the head for his choice of words.

[geminigirl]

I know. On both counts.

[vvalkyri.livejournal.com]

Wow. That's, er, quite the choice of words.

here's wikipedia's bio: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benedict_XVI

[lovingboth]

It's not like he doesn't already have a track record to judge.

You know it was the Vatican that actively enabled various German war criminals to escape, don't you?

[geminigirl]

Yep. At least he's old.

[malte.livejournal.com]

There are certainly people that have argued that his position on women isn't quite as awful as it could have been. And he apparently knows enough about Judith Butler to appear to disagree with her.

I should really google up some stuff on this, shouldn't I?

[chiefted]

I've followd this rather closely, for a non-Catholic. My own fascination with it intrigues me. It's anthropology, it's a love of ritual, of pomp. The curtains that adorn the Papal Loggia are shifting, and they appear to be human, not wind motions. I should have been an antropologist.

Did the same thing here as a non-Catholic. It is antropology/history. I think more then the pomp and ritual of it I am intrigied by the "politics" of the church for good or bad, and wondering whether the new Pope despite his history will be more open to new ideas (I doubt it but one could hope).

[aliki.livejournal.com]

I'm amazed at the speed at which the negative commentary has appeared on my Flist...I'm curious as to the comments the more observant, involved Catholics will make later on.

Do you have a lot of observant, involved Catholics on your Flist? I'm curious to see their reactions too. I don't consider myself particularly observant-- I mean, I'm not those 60-year old ladies who go to Church every day and recite the rosary; but I certainly do go to Church once or twice a month. I try my best to be a good Christian and do neighborly things.. but can I just say I AM SO SADDENED AND DISHEARTENED BY THIS ELECTION OF POPE BENEDICT XVI... :(

Hitler Youth. Against women in priesthood. Against Turkey joining the EU. Angry about non-Latin mass (that was one of the BEST things that Vatican II did... drawing Catholics back to enjoy mass, damnit!). I am just so mad. But I dont know if I'm observant or religious enough a Catholic to feel ashamed about it.

[pecunium.livejournal.com]

As a Catholic I have some problems with Pope Benedict XVI. He wasn't angry about the demise of the Latin Mass. He said it may have been done precipitately.

Me, I think the change in the mass was a bad idea. First the mass is now incomprehensible to me when I travel. I stepped into a church in Frankfort and might as well have been a non-Catholic, because I couldn't partake in the celebration. When the Mass was in Latin I could be a complete participant no matter where I was.

I am ambivalent about moving the priest to the other side of the altar. It used to be we were celebrating together, now he is on the other side of the altar from me, and it's more like a protestant service. The dynamic is different and I no longer feel we are lookning the same way, but rather he is somehow apart from me.

I know that puts me in a minority (esp as the greater number of those who think this way are the Tridentines, and they are so far apart from me in every other aspect of their catholicism as to be alien to me, moreso than the Cathedral in Frankfort).

I am not sure where I stand on female priests, nor even on the issue of celibacy. I am more for women in the priesthood than I am for priestly marriage, but I can see the case for the latter (theologically, though I think it weak and would not oppose it's removal, not in the least, so I guess I do know where I stand on it, and that is in opposition to the present doctrine).

TK

[pecunium.livejournal.com]

For my part... I am not pleased (I'm Catholic) and I, for one, don't care about the Hitler Youth... it was mandatory, he was 12. When he was drafted, he deserted (a capital offense).

It is other things which disturb me.

For more commentary, wide ranging and detailed (with a few words from me) try Habemus Papem (http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/006263.html#006263) at Making Light (http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/)

TK

[entirelysonja.livejournal.com]

My uncle Gerd was a member of the Hitler Youth; as membership was compulsory after 1939, it's not too surprising that he was a member. However, even if membership hadn't been compulsory (as it probably wasn't when Ratzinger joined, given his age), I'm pretty sure it was the only game in town -- I seem to recall that the Hitler Youth was the only youth group available under the Nazi regime.

My uncle Walter, the one who just died, is the only member of my family who opposed the Nazi regime during the Third Reich; he was also a conscientious objector who deserted during the war (as I believe Ratzinger also did).